Architect and theorist Adolf Loos equated ornament with crime. In his 1908 essay “Ornament and Crime” (translated into English in 1913) Loos singled out tattoos (from New Guinea) as the prime example of degeneracy. Since Loos, much architectural theory has placed tattoos and building in diametrical opposition. A generation before Loos, the skin of a building took on fundamental significance. Gottfried Semper’s “The Four Elements of Architecture” (1851) outlined four primordial motives commensurate with four crafts: building a base (masonry), building a hearth (ceramics), building wall enclosure and roofing (carpentry), and walling (weaving). Semper, too, used anthropological examples, namely a Caribbean hut he saw at the London World’s Fair (the Thinking of skins and architectural theory is what turned my attention to the tattoo worn by one of my students. Meghan Marchie is an Architectural Studies major at
Meghan discusses the tensions of a linear architectural design, “a cage,” against the curvature of the body, and how difficult it was to find a tattoo artist to even draw it. She speaks of her early inspirations in domestic architecture that stirred her towards Frank Lloyd Wright and architectural studies, as well as her curriculum at
MEGHAN MARCHIE INTERVIEW
December 4, 2008, 4:30-5 pm.
Cummings 207, Connecticut College
New London, Conn.
KK This interview doesn’t have to be limited to your tattoo. Give me the context, your relationship to Frank Lloyd Wright. We can start with even how you discovered Frank Lloyd Wright.
MM Well, I knew I’d always been interested in architecture because, even as a child, I used to move all my furniture around in my room just, you know, on a whim. Really, a little kid, I’d move around this huge four poster iron bed and my mom would come upstairs next day and be like “who moved all this stuff?” And even from then I would be interested in drawing little floor plans and seeing the best way my room would look. And this was back in elementary school before I even really knew what that was. And then, they actually offered architecture courses in high school, which was really nice because a lot of high schools don’t really have that. So, the second I got into that I really really liked it. I had my teacher introduce me to Frank Lloyd Wright. We studied some of his homes and talked about Fallingwater, that kind of thing. So, I guess, this was the beginning of high school, but I just thought he was really cool. I thought his architecture was not just any old architecture, I thought it was actually hip, hip and cool.
KK Let me just ask you out of curiosity, what kind of architectural studies classes did you take in high school? Studio? History?
MM We used computers and did vector works, and drafting, and using CAD machines, and stuff like that, which is awesome because not many people have that opportunity. And it definitely made me completely interested. And I took it for three years, and basically by my third year I knew more about the program than my teacher did because he would come to me and ask me questions. I was young and using it more, and it got to the point where I was the local authority on how to do 3D drafting of a kitchen, or something. So, it got to a point where I was actually teaching my teacher and thought I really want to go somewhere with this. My mother works in the school system and keeps in touch with my old teachers and he, Mr. Bruss was his name, he was really excited that I decided to major in architecture, like “I knew, I knew that was going to happen.”
KK I’m curious also about the kind of place where you grew up. Was it a city, were you in an architectural environment that fed your interest, or was it always through books and reading?
MM I was lucky enough to move my Freshman year into a really, really, really nice suburb of
KK Where those houses of historical value, of the 19th or early 20th century?
MM Some of them are. There’s some old historical houses in my town. There is this really really old club called Fortnightly Club, where, actually this summer, I worked with an interior designer and we did a wine cellar in there. So there is a bunch of historical houses in my town. I kept being drawn towards the more modern side. Even in architectural studies now, if I have a choice between doing something traditional and doing something modern, I like to do something that’s just as crazy as you can go.
KK In your mind, at what point in your life did that direction get formulated? I mean, why do you think you are attracted to the modern style? Is it because it’s more exciting, more creative?
MM I feel like you can do more with it. I definitely appreciate the beauty in an old building. Of course, that’s not going to be lost on me. But, I guess, upon reaching college, that is when I started getting into classes and reading books about modern architecture. And then I realized what a movement it was. Originally, I thought it was a hip thing to study. Then I actually got really into it, started getting really into Mies van der Rohe and that whole movement there, and I was in Gender and Architecture class at
KK So for you, it’s very much an aesthetic experience. I’m curious about your term “hip.” That you knew even in high school that there was something hip about this kind of thing. I’m curious to see whether you had other friends. Was there a circle of people that were kind of architecture-heads, architecture fanatics? Or were you on your own?
MM What is kind of funny is that my close friend in high school, he was in all the architecture classes with me, and we both ended up going to architecture school. Out of, literally, the entire class, it was just us two. I think we are the only ones that are pursuing architecture actually in my high school class. And even today, when we come back from breaks, we’ll talk about architecture because that’s what we’ve been doing together the entire time. So I definitely have. He is the one that comes on real estate drives with me. I mean, we have the interest and we feed each other. So I do have a friend to talk about it with. And, yeah, it’s really nice.
KK So, you’re pretty sure you’re going to architecture graduate school.
MM Yeah, I really want to go to architecture grad school, but I think I’m actually going to try to apply to the Peace Corps before that. Because, apparently, if you have a BA in architecture, you can do an urban development program for two years. And upon coming out of that, you can pretty much go wherever you want with that. I mean, you can really get into really good schools, so I kind of want to have that experience even though it’s really tough.
KK But it sounds like you already have international experiences. You had mentioned in class that you went to
MM Yeah, I feel I’d be able to handle rats and cockroaches. I mean, I already did that for a couple of months and it got to a point where I didn’t care anymore. So, I figure that I can be OK with that kind of stuff.
KK Were those international journeys also motivated by architecture?
MM Yes, but I was there more doing sociological work. We were doing research on how the new economy is affecting migrant street vendors from the villages. But upon that, we traveled all over
KK So it sounds like you have an interest not only in high architecture but also in vernacular forms and social things.
MM My minor is psychology and, right now, I’m getting an independent study prepared that’s going to measure how people with certain personality types respond to certain spaces, so we’ll see how that goes.
KK Is it like a thesis?
MM Yeah, it’s a final integrative senior project, so it is integrating my two cores.
KK So, for you, the Peace Corps sound great. It’s something that people used to do all the time. I guess it’s a generational thing, but less and less …
MM Even now with the economy today, it’s getting really really hard to get in. Yeah, it used to be something like you would sign up and they’d send you anywhere. I think over 12,000 apply and under 3,000 get accepted. So, it’s really like applying to a really special school again.
KK You are a senior, right? Are you in the process of applying?
MM I’m going to start, I think, in January. It’s like a six month process, it’s pretty long. So, yeah, I’m putting that off until I have to.
KK Good. That gives me a sense of how you’ve built that interest. Let me just go back to Frank Lloyd Wright so that we can get to your tattoo also. Do you still feel that you have a special relationship with Frank Lloyd Wright, as a kind of formative person?
MM I like what his buildings stand for. He really was a genius in putting things together and the experience of space. He really was first of his kind to build democratic buildings and that type of thing. I don’t think him as a character was the greatest guy ever. I mean, he definitely didn’t respect women. I’ve had conversations with other architecture majors about why I want to put something on my back from this guy who was a total misogynist and had a bunch of wives and would leave his family, but it’s more that I just like what he does.
KK Tell me how you decided a) to get a tattoo, b) to choose a Frank Lloyd Wright tattoo, and c) how you chose that particular design for a tattoo.
MM I actually knew I was going to get a tattoo at some point maybe because my mom was like “never get one.” And plus, I think the tattoo culture is great. And nowadays for so many people it’s a way to express your individuality.
KK Tell me what you like about the tattoo culture. Is it another form of design? It links the vernacular and design.
MM It’s interesting now, I wasn’t aware of it before. But now, if I have my tattoo out, you get in conversations with people who have tattoos, so they’ve been through the same experience and process. And it kind of makes you more keen to how people are expressing themselves on their body. I have some friends with some really weird things on their bodies that, at first, people looked at it and were like, “that’s gross,” but once someone explains it to you and how it has to do with their life and stuff, it is just really interesting because putting something on your body is really kind of a statement rather than just drawing something on a piece of paper. And it’s something you want to people to see, you want to be affiliated with it. I almost feel sometimes, now that it is winter and I can’t have my tattoo out, I almost kind of feel sort of naked that I don’t have it on. I feel like people don’t know I have this thing on my back that’s so important to me. So even though it’s winter, I try to make an effort to have a strap or something, so that I can have my tattoo out. I mean, I’ve got into really interesting conversations with people because it’s a really unique tattoo in that architecture is all about us, straight lines and structures and everything being precise and the second it’s put on skin, if I move my arm, the whole thing becomes organic and the shape changes. That’s what I love about it, that it goes from being something completely structured to just with the move of my arm it turns into something else. I was originally going to get a tattoo in
KK You said some of your friends have tattoos. What is the repertoire of your friends’ tattoos? What kind of iconography have they chosen? Is it all over the place?
MM My tattoo, I had to ask a bunch of different tattoo artists to do it. Nobody wanted to do it because it’s all straight lines and it’s precise. Literally, if you don’t have it precise, the entire geometry of the thing is thrown off. So the guy who did my tattoo, after he finished, he was like “I’m never doing anything like this again,” and he was like “this is a really weird tattoo. You’re going to have people come up to you in the street and asking you about it because most tattoos aren’t straight lines.” And of course, I was “really? whatever,” and it’s totally true. I have a bunch of people with tattoos always come to me and ask me. “Wow! Who did your tattoo? It’s amazing that you have straight lines on your back.” And I just think it’s really awesome because I do have people come up to me and go “is that Frank Lloyd Wright on your back?” and there I get into these great intellectual conversations about architecture with people. It’s kind of a whole new way to express what I’m interested in ‘cause, I mean, some people have music lyrics on their arm and you can say, “hey, I know that song,” and talk about that or something like that. But it’s just kind of in your face, like a Frank Lloyd Wright image on your back and I've met some really, really cool people just because I have it on my back. I mean, people, strangers, have come up to me and been like, “I know that’s Frank Lloyd Wright, I love his Prairie Houses,” and, you know, we go on from there. It’s a whole different level of intellectual conversation really.
KK And how did you find the artist who would actually do your tattoo? Was it through word of mouth?
MM I actually went to
KK How did you choose to put it on your back? Was that something you had to think through? Did you choose the piece first and then realize that the back was the best place for it to go, or did you choose the part of the body first and then choose the image?
MM I knew I wanted something on my back.
KK Why? So that you can hide it?
MM Well, I mean that of course, if I wanted to be .. I don’t want something on my arm or something you can see when I shake your hand. I mean, this is easily covered up and easily shown, if I want. I guess, hmmm. How did I decide? I originally wanted it really small, and right now it’s gigantic pretty much. The thing is that the detail is so intense that the tattoo artist was like, “All right. This is the smallest I can make it,” and then he showed me the size, and I was like “just do it. OK. Just do it, like, I’m not even going to think about it.”
KK Interesting, so there was a scale factor.
MM It was going to be really a lot smaller, but then, I mean, I’m really completely 100%, 110% happy with it. The fact that it’s big, I think, just makes it even more like a statement, and I knew I wanted a stained glass window pane by Frank Lloyd Wright because I think that is some of his most recognizable and dynamic work and so, I mean, I basically just went online and was googling images and looking at the houses that I liked the most and ended up finding this image that actually is supposed to represent a version of a modern city. So if you look at the tattoo from pretty far away, it actually looks like skyscrapers and I thought that was really cool.
KK So, have you make a pilgrimage to the original? Have you seen the original?
MM No, I haven’t seen the original.
KK Does it still exist?
MM I’m actually not sure if it exists anymore.
KK It might have been torn down.
MM Yeah, I probably should know that.
KK No, no, no, it’s not that important, but I thought it might be the kind of thing that you …
MM Yeah, that would be really cool, to like have a picture next to it or something, but, yeah, I’m not really sure if it exists anymore, but it’s on my back.
KK It’s not important, right?
MM Yeah.
KK And how big is it? Maybe you could send me a photo of it.
MM Yeah, I have a photo. I would say it’s like this big, maybe 6 x 10 roughly, maybe a little bigger than that. It’s pretty much my entire shoulder blade. Yeah, it’s a statement for sure. My mother was furious.
KK Now that you have the tattoo and we know how you made your decision, tell me about the response. You’ve told me about the positive response by people that come up and talk to you.
MM The only negative response I’ve gotten is from my mother.
KK Whom you told, right?
MM Yeah.
KK Did you consider hiding it from her?
MM I didn’t even consider it ‘cause it’s ... I was, like, “Look what I got! Hoo hooo.” I mean, she says it’s just like too big, it’s going be there forever, and I was, like, “that’s what I wanted.” I even actually came, and when I got back to school, my initial thing was to find all my architecture professors and show them my back and that’s exactly what I did and my advisor, van Slyck, who is right next door, was just like, “Wait! That is awesome. Wait, come here.” And calls over another professor. I have all these teachers looking at my back. Yeah, I mean, I got such a great response because I think it is really really original and nobody has that type of thing. Even people who don’t know what it is still think that it’s “stunning,” “beautiful” quote unquote. I get amazing compliments about it and it’s just my mother is the only one that doesn’t like it.
KK Well, is she more traditional?
MM She says that it’s going to affect my ability to get a job, that’s why. It’s like motherly concern.
KK Pragmatism.
MM Yeah, I understand where she’s coming from, but I was, like, “I can can hide it,” you know, “I didn’t get it on my face,” so.
KK Plus, it might actually get you an architecture job.
MM Yeah, it really could. I’ve had a lot of great conversations with architects, with students, with so many people.
KK I find it fascinating because of the two worlds you were describing earlier, you are interested in vernacular stuff and architecture. I think of tattoos as something that is more vernacular culture, popular culture. You know. I guess anthropologists study it in non-western civilizations that use tattoos extensively. I mean, to tattoo yourself is part of that anthropological interest in transforming your own body as a work of art, which is very different from the Modernist architectural ideas of pure form, purity, abstract beauty which is perfect. In that sense it is kind of amazing and very unique. I haven’t heard of anyone that has an architectural tattoo.
MM That has straight lines as a tattoo.
KK It’s not the obvious thing you think of. It’s not generic.
MM Right, I want, like, a heart on my back or something. I know that it definitely is more popular culture now because thinking back to even when I was back in high school, in older kids, like, it was something really bizarre when someone came back with a tattoo and now, when I think of my groups of friends and people that I know, I would confidently say that 75%-85% have a tattoo now.
KK It’s a huge revival.
MM It really is and it’s just a new way to express who you are.
KK Especially in some places. My direct experience is in
MM There definitely is a tattoo culture. I felt very different about it, and then, when I got my tattoo, I actually felt I was part of this special group, and it’s, like, a whole new world has been opened up with this tattoo, with this one tattoo on my back,
KK If you think of the tattoo historically, it’s something that sailors got,
MM Oh, definitely.
KK Of being kind of … opium den and sailors, getting drunk and getting a tattoo that you don’t remember.
MM I feel that it’s definitely a cultural thing. When I was talking to my friends in
KK Oh, yeah. Do the Vietnamese do a lot of bodily ornamentation?
MM No, no. Hair, I think is pretty much the most manipulated thing. But very very few people have tattoos and then if people have tattoos, it’s a big deal. One kid in my group had a tattoo in his arm and I remember my Vietnamese friends were just like “Wow! That’s crazy. I can’t believe you would do that to your own skin,” like it was just like a really miraculous thing to have. And a bunch of them, especially because I was a girl, thought that I was being crazy for trying to do that on my skin. It’s definitely cultural.
KK There is the trend of the Chinese character tattoos. It’s a kind of Orientalism that you see in tattoo culture.
MM But the thing is that in that culture they would never, they would never do that, so it’s totally different.
KK I’ll ask you one final question. Do you have an opinion about people that have tattoos in other parts of their bodies? Do you think it’s intentional to put tattoos on their necks? You said that you didn’t want your to be always visible. Do you look at other people that have tattoos and look at them as manipulating you, but placing them in particular places?
MM I don’t know because sometimes I actually wish that it was in a place that was visible, I mean, as I’d said before, I’m sometimes mad that I have to cover it up. I almost wish I could just get the same exact thing on my arm so I can have it out all the time. But I have a bunch of friends that have some really really obvious tattoos, like on their collar bone, on the back of the neck, and a lot of people do it on the bottom of the forearm, that’s a really really visible area and I don’t think there is anything wrong with it. I just think it’s their choice to put it wherever they want, it’s their body, I mean all power to you.
KK OK. I was just curious about how you situate yourself within tattoo culture in general. Or even if you care about organizations like the Suicide Girls. Have you heard of the Suicide Girls?
MM Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, that's just over the top
KK So, you wouldn’t go that far.
MM Oh, my gosh. They, like, pierce their faces. I mean, I have a nose piercing, I’m OK with piercing, but I’d definitely draw a line and I do think that people who have sleeves, that their entire arm is covered, my uncle is like that, and I remember, when I was little, I always thought that was really cool.
KK Oh, tell me about your uncle.
MM He’s a very crazy man. He, like, plays guitar. He was the fun uncle. I think he got his nipples pierced, I think when he turned 40, or something. But he was the uncle with the tattoo and I always remember telling my mom that that was great, and she was always, “No, don’t copy uncle Danny, that’s not a good thing, you don’t want to do that.”
KK Is he her brother?
MM Yeah, her brother.
KK That’s interesting. So, you had some kind of early-on exposure.
MM So, like, I definitely knew that my uncle was a big tattoo guy. And when I got my tattoo, I called him up and was like “Yeah, I got my first tattoo.” He was really excited for me. “Yeah, c’mon over, I must see it. It’s really great.” So, actually, my uncle’s son all of a sudden got his first tattoo. It’s kind of like tattoo culture in uncle’s house. It’s really funny because the second my grandmother comes, everybody covers it up. My grandmother doesn’t even know about her son’s numerous tattoos. He’s kept them hidden probably for 30 years, which is pretty impressive. But he still hides them, which shows something about fear of my grandmother.
KK Well, that’s great. This is all really interesting, the various lines of connection between architecture and design.
MM I hope that was helpful.
